Eurogamer为庆祝PlayStation问世三十周年，专访了曾任索尼互动娱乐全球工作室主席的肖恩·雷登（Shawn Layden）。他在索尼工作长达32年，从1987年便加入公司，先后见证并参与了初代PlayStation的崛起、PS2独占格局的奠定、PS3时代被戏称为"伊卡洛斯时刻"的挫折，直至PS4以"纯粹的顶级游戏机"重新夺回行业主导地位。整篇访谈最令古墓丽影玩家津津乐道的，是雷登亲口披露的一段主机之争往事：在初代PlayStation时期，他负责将西方游戏引入日本市场，曾专程前往位于德比的核心设计工作室（Core Design），希望为日本市场争取那款当时正被热议的作品——《古墓丽影》。他亲眼见到了工作室的史密斯兄弟，双方相谈甚欢，对方也对这一构想兴奋不已，可最终这款作品却被签给了世嘉土星（Sega Saturn）首发。多年后雷登依然耿耿于怀，坦言"那一直让我觉得，我还能做点什么才能真的拿下它，可我离成功只有那么一步之遥"。这段回忆不仅揭示了《古墓丽影》初代主机独占史的戏剧性转折，也折射出PlayStation早期"人民平台"战略背后的艰难博弈——即便强大如索尼，也曾在争取顶级第三方作品时铩羽而归。本文将完整呈现这篇专访的核心内容，包括古墓丽影主机之争的详细经过，以及雷登对PlayStation发展历程的诸多独家回忆。
——消息来源：Eurogamer，2024年12月3日
《肖恩·雷登忆PlayStation三十年：曾"嫉妒"《古墓丽影》与世嘉土星的协议》
The Big PlayStation 30th Anniversary Interview with Shawn Layden: "It was a fight to get the Sony name on the machine"
2024年12月3日
Dec 3, 2024
你记忆中的PlayStation是怎样的？你当时已是索尼员工，第一反应如何？"做游戏机"这件事在当时被认真对待了吗？
What's your first memory of PlayStation? You were already working at Sony at the time, what was your reaction to it? Was the idea of a games console taken seriously?
雷登：PlayStation发售时，我还在集团公司任职，在索尼总部，那是1987年以来我一直待的地方。我隶属时任董事长盛田昭夫（Akio Morita）的办公室——他是索尼的创始人。我是他的助理、演讲稿撰写人、代笔人，必要时还要当他的中间人。我们当时算是"远观"这一切。不过我记得有一场早期的演示会，他们把PlayStation原型机拿到了董事长办公室，我们得以亲见他们正在打造的东西。我记得1994年年中、正式发售之前，我站在董事会议室里玩《山脊赛车》（Ridge Racer），心里想："天哪，这东西会他妈的了不起。"
Layden: When PlayStation launched I was still with corporate, back at Sony headquarters where I'd been since 1987. I was attached to the office of the chairman, Akio Morita, the founder of Sony. I was his assistant, speech writer, ghost writer, interlocutor when I had to be. And we were watching all that from afar, so to speak. But I remember having a presentation early on where they brought the PlayStation prototype to the chairman's office, and we got to see what they were building. I remember back in mid '94 before the launch, standing up in a boardroom playing Ridge Racer and going, 'oh my god, this is going to be fucking amazing'.
但在索尼内部，当时不少高层并不把它当回事。他们想："天哪，世嘉和任天堂已经掌控了这个行业。你真以为索尼能斜插进来，把这块蛋糕切成三份吗？"当时恐怕有人会把这叫作"愚人之举"。不过，时任社长（Norio Ohga）大贺典雄是相信这件事的人。很多人觉得我们在冒险。把"索尼"这个名字放到这台机器上，本身就是一场斗争——他们根本不想跟它扯上关系。
But within Sony, I think a lot of the leadership at the time didn't take it seriously. They thought: 'Oh my god, Sega and Nintendo own this thing [the console industry]. You think Sony's going to come in sideways and try to divvy that thing up into a three piece pie?' It was a 'fool's errand', I think some of them might have even called it at the time. But [then-Sony president Norio] Ohga-san was a believer. A lot of people thought we were taking a risk. It was a fight to get the Sony name onto the machine - they didn't want to be associated with it.
你很快就专门转到了PlayStation部门——那是怎么发生的？
You moved over to the PlayStation division specifically pretty soon after - how did that happen?
雷登：我是在1996年正式加入PlayStation部门的，当时他们已经运营了一年，在北美和日本都发售了。不幸的是，董事长中风了，所以那个职位不再需要了。当时PlayStation的社长是德中辉利（Terry Tokunaka），我们在收购哥伦比亚影业时共事过，所以算是个"老熟人"。董事长去世后，德中问我："你现在打算干什么？要不要来加入我们的新公司——索尼电脑娱乐（Sony Computer Entertainment）？"我说："好啊，那我去做什么？"他说："你会是一名电子游戏制作人。"我说："实话跟你说，我对做电子游戏一窍不通。"德中非常坦诚："没关系，我们谁都不懂。这正是入行的大好时机。我们一起边做边摸索。"
Layden: I joined PlayStation specifically in '96 when they were a year into it. They'd already launched in North America and in Japan. Sadly, the chairman had suffered a stroke, so that position was no longer required, and the president of PlayStation at the time was a guy named Terry Tokunaka. We'd worked together on the acquisition of Columbia Pictures, so I was kind of a known quantity. After the chairman's death, Terry asked me 'what are you going to do now? Why don't you come and join us in this new company, Sony Computer Entertainment ?' I said, 'Okay, that's great. What would I do there?' He said: 'You'd be a video game producer'. I said: 'I'll be honest with you, I don't know anything about making video games'. And Terry was very upfront. He said, 'It's all right. None of us do either. This is the perfect time to get in. We'll all make this stuff up as we go along together.'
在PlayStation内部工作究竟是怎样的体验？
What was it like actually working inside PlayStation back then?
雷登：那真叫"烈火洗礼"。入职第一周我四处走动想认识同事，上司走过来说："嘿，你要去E3吗？就在下周。"我说："你要我去这个E3？"他说是的，我该去。"太好了！"我答应下来，转头找同事问——"E3到底是什么？"我连名片都没有，1996年入职仅10天就飞到洛杉矶参加E3。如果你是个什么都不懂的新手，想彻底沉浸在游戏行业里，那就第10天空降E3。你要么极快地跟上节奏，要么就被这头巨兽碾过去。俗话说，你只要能跑得比最慢的那头熊快就行。
Layden: Talk about baptism by fire. I was walking around trying to get to know people in my first week and my boss comes up and says, 'Hey, are you going to E3? Because that's next week'. I said, 'Do you want me to go to this E3?' He said yes I should go. 'Great!' I say, before finding a colleague. 'What the hell is E3?' I didn't have business cards, and I landed in LA in 1996 going to E3 after only being in the company for 10 days. If you want total immersion in the game business as a neophyte, get dropped into E3 on day 10. You either catch on really quick, or you get rolled over by the leviathan. You just have to run faster than the slowest bear, as they say.
PlayStation面对的是已经确立地位的对手——任天堂、世嘉当时已是主机界的巨头。索尼是如何决定要去挑战他们的？
PlayStation faced established competition - Nintendo, Sega were already giants of the console world. How did Sony decide it was going to take them on?
雷登：显然，我们打算给超级任天堂娱乐系统（SNES）做一个——或者说，我们确实做了——一个光盘驱动器外设。任天堂意识到卡带的内存容量已经触顶了，于是我们——准确说是久多良木健（Ken Kutaragi）——为SNES打造了光盘技术。而且我们几乎就要准备就绪了。我记得是在1993年的CES（消费电子展）上，我们正要宣布合作。结果任天堂在最后关头临阵倒戈，转头去跟飞利浦合作，把我们扔在了圣坛上。
Layden: Obviously, we were going to build - or rather, we built - an optical drive peripheral for the Super Nintendo Entertainment System. Nintendo realised cartridges had already maxed out their memory footprints and so we - or rather, Ken Kutaragi - created the compact disc technology to support the SNES. And we were just about ready. I think it was at CES [Computer Entertainment Show] 1993, we were going to announce the partnership. And Nintendo left us standing at the altar, after they did a pivot at the last minute and went with Philips.
于是久多良木只好拿着他那台光盘驱动器站在圣坛上，活像个受了委屈的新郎。他满腹愤懑地回到当时索尼的领导层面前说："只要给我一个操作系统和一些连接件，我们就能自己造游戏机。"于是我们搬出了索尼总部，迁到青山（Aoyama）——离总部大约20英里，但那里更靠近东京的娱乐区，因为他们觉得这对公司的DNA很重要——那大概是公司做过最正确的决定了。
So there was Ken, proverbially standing at the altar with his optical disc drive in his hands. And, indignant, he went back to the leadership at Sony at the time and said: 'All I need is an OS and some more connecting tissue for this thing, and we can build our own game machine'. We moved out of Sony's headquarters to a place in Aoyama, which is about 20 miles away but more in the entertainment district of Tokyo, because they felt that was important to the DNA of the company - and that was probably the best decision the company made.
怎么说？
How so?
雷登：当他们决定进军游戏行业时，他们清楚自己手里有技术、有工程师。但他们说："说句实话，我们是卖电器的。"索尼明白，没有娱乐DNA，我们不可能成功。于是起步阶段采取了索尼电子与索尼音乐合资的形式——公司一半人来自音乐口。早晨8点你就能在车间里看出来：所有硬件工程师都穿着索尼马甲坐在工位上鼓捣他们的工程活。可到了上午10点到11点，索尼音乐那些家伙才姗姗来迟——宿醉未醒、戴着墨镜、嘴里叼着烟。他们会盯着日经报纸看45分钟，喝一杯茶，然后说："行吧，吃午饭去。"然后全体起立、全体离场。接下来一整天你都见不到他们了。
Layden: When they decided they were getting into the game business, they knew they had the technology, the engineers. But they said 'let's be honest, we sell electronics'. Sony knew that without entertainment DNA, we would not be successful. So the initial stage was made a joint venture between Sony Electronics and Sony Music. Half the company was from the music side and, well, you could see it on the shop floor at 8am. All the hardware engineers were at their desks wearing their Sony vests, working on their engineering thing. And then around 10 through 11am, all the Sony Music guys would come in - hungover, sunglasses, cigarettes hanging out their mouths. They'd look at the Nikkei paper for 45 minutes, drink a cup of tea, and then go: 'alright, lunch'. They'd all stand up. They'd all leave.
因为索尼音乐包揽了销售、市场、广告和发行商关系。所以正是这些人，会去跟史克威尔（Square）的人周旋，陪他们喝威士忌喝到凌晨，最终把《最终幻想7》（Final Fantasy 7）从任天堂手里撬到了PlayStation上。当那个消息公布时，那真是"天呐"的时刻——"索尼这次是动真格的了。"而这都要归功于那些音乐人，归功于他们死磕到底、只为把一单生意谈成的韧劲。他们太了不起了。
We wouldn't see them again for the rest of the day, because Sony Music populated sales, marketing, advertising, publisher relations. So those were the guys who would go out with the people at Square and ply them with whiskey until the wee hours of the morning to finally get Final Fantasy 7 off of Nintendo and onto PlayStation. When that announcement was made, that was really the 'oh my god' moment. 'Sony's really serious about this now.' And that's down to the music guys, the doggedness of just trying to get a deal over the line. They were amazing.
早期还做过哪些重大决策，帮助PlayStation站稳了脚跟？
What other big decisions were made early on, that helped get PlayStation a foothold?
雷登：我们有光学技术，而当时的游戏都存放在闪存ROM里，所以那是一次巨大的飞跃。空的ROM卡带一块要8到10美元，还得拿去烧录，通常是在台湾或香港做，这意味着补货的周期长达六到八周。而光盘一块只要1美元，还没有起订量——你可以一下子压出1万张扔进市场。"如果它火了，周四给我打电话，周二我就能给你补货。"这种势头彻底改变了那个行业的商业模式。
Layden: We had the optical technology, and games were all on flash ROM at that time, so that was a huge leap. ROM carts were $8 to $10 a pop to get blanks, and then you had to get them flashed, usually in Taiwan or in Hong Kong, which meant lead times of six, eight weeks to get stock refilled. Optical discs were $1 a throw and you didn't have a minimum amount, you could just pop 10,000 out and throw them in the marketplace. 'If it catches fire, call me on Thursday. I can refill you by Tuesday.' The momentum really changed the business model of that.
我们自始至终都清楚，PlayStation只有做成"人民的平台"（The People's Platform）才会成功。索尼刻意从未让[第一方]软件份额超过22%左右。在世嘉和任天堂的平台上，第一方的软件市场份额高达80%、85%、90%。但我们一直明白，PlayStation只有在做成"人民的平台"时才会成功——那是留给第三方来开拓生意的地方。我们会进场，通常在发售时拿到大约25%的份额，因为我们都把宝押在新游戏上。但久而久之，这个市场里真正在收入和份额上领先的，是那些动视（Activision）、Take-Two 和 EA。第一方的职责是把整个蛋糕做大——蛋糕越大，每个人的那份就越大，于是皆大欢喜。
We always knew PlayStation would only be successful if we made it, quote, 'The People's Platform'. Sony deliberately never had more than maybe 22 percent of [first-party] software share. On the Sega platforms and Nintendo, first-party had 80, 85, 90 percent of the software market. But we always knew PlayStation would only be successful if we made it, quote, 'The People's Platform'. It's for third parties to come make a business. We'll come in and we'll get, you know, 25 percent typically at launch, the share is higher because we put all the bets on the new games. But over time, you know, the real leaders in that marketplace as far as revenue and share goes were the Activisions and the Take-Twos and EA. Our first party responsibility was to grow the pie overall, and as the pie gets bigger everyone's slice gets bigger, so everyone's happy.
把整个市场做大，意味着要创造新类型、新玩法的游戏，而不是在主流的几个品类里内卷。于是你看到了《啪啦啪啦》（PaRappa the Rapper）这样的游戏，看到了《歌星》（SingStar）、《古堡迷踪》（Ico）、《汪达与巨像》（Shadow of the Colossus）。谁来做出这些游戏？这是第一方必须承担的责任——首先要展示平台的力量，其次要展示我们能开拓出的无限游戏品类。我们不是被困在三个类型里互相抢份额。所以，这些都是早期做出的重要决策。我觉得PlayStation的创始人对"怎样才算成功、如何在市场中做出差异化"有着非常敏锐的洞察，而很多这类决定都做得极其超前。
Growing the market overall meant creating new types of games, new genres of games, and not competing in some of the standard genre categories. And so you got games like PaRappa the Rapper. You got games like SingStar, Ico and Shadow of the Colossus. Who's going to make those games? It was a first-party imperative to show, firstly, the power of the platform, and then secondly, the endless categories that we could build games into. We weren't just trapped into three genres and trying to fight for market share from each other. So I think those are the important decisions taken early on. I think the founders of PlayStation had a really, really keen view on what it took to be successful and how to differentiate it in the marketplace. And a lot of those decisions were taken super early.
除了硬件和游戏，PlayStation也留下了不少令人难忘的营销。
Aside from the hardware and games, PlayStation had some memorable marketing too.
雷登：是的，绝对是。如果你看看日本的电视广告，那是你在游戏广告里从没见过的。过去的游戏广告一直非常直白——"这是角色，这是动作场面"。但PlayStation的广告团队来自索尼音乐，所以我们像营销摇滚乐队一样营销游戏，带一点神秘感，带一点性感。在英国也同样如此。
Layden: Absolutely. If you look at the Japanese TV advertising, it was like nothing you'd ever seen in gaming. Gaming advertising had been really straightforward. 'Here's the character, here's the action scene.' But the advertising team at PlayStation came from Sony Music, so we were marketing games like you market rock bands - with a little of the mystery, a little of the sexy. It was the same in England too.
而在伦敦，我会因公前往利物浦工作室（Sony Liverpool）看望那边的伙伴，那段时间我们经常去泡吧，会看到夜店里摆着PlayStation 1的试玩台，上面放着《反重力赛车》（WipEout）。你一手端着伏特加红牛，一手玩着《反重力赛车》。那是把游戏变成一种生活方式的开始，是让游戏不再仅仅是一种消遣的开始。突然之间，游戏不再是人们在酒吧里窃窃私语的谈资，而是你开始听到有人说："哦，我在玩《古墓丽影》。""哦，《古墓丽影》啊。哦，你也玩游戏？那真酷。"
And in London, I would come over on business to go to Sony Liverpool and see the guys up there, and we'd be going to clubs during that time and see PlayStation 1 kiosks with WipEout in nightclubs. You've got your vodka Red Bull in one hand, and you're playing WipEout with the other. It was the beginnings of making gaming into a lifestyle, the beginnings of making it something where gaming is more than just a distraction. All of a sudden, gaming became less something whispered about in pubs and more you overhearing someone saying 'oh I'm playing Tomb Raider'. 'Oh, Tomb Raider. Oh, do you play games? That's cool.'
没错，当年WipEout在英国有一支引发争议的广告。当时还有人说，游戏名里的那个"E"是在影射毒品文化。
Yes. WipEout here had a memorable advert that caused some controversy, back in the day. And then there was the suggestion the 'E' in the game's name was a nod to drugs culture.
雷登：(笑)我觉得这些都市传说很酷，人们会从本没有含义的地方解读出意义。《反重力赛车》的创新之处，在于我们与创意团队合作，比如处于行业巅峰的Designers Republic。《反重力赛车》的包装是前所未见的，除非是在那种EDM专辑的封面上。而那配乐，我觉得同样是天才之作。《反重力赛车》发售时我在日本，所以我得把它带到日本、为日本市场做本地化。好在日本还没听说过化学兄弟（Chemical Brothers）、水晶方法（Crystal Method）或神童（Prodigy）。《反重力赛车》就像一台音乐导览机。
Layden: [Laughs] I think these urban legends are cool, and people extract meaning where there wasn't necessarily one. I think the innovations of WipEout were us teaming up with creatives like Designers Republic, who were at the top of their game. The Wipeout packaging was like nothing anyone had ever seen before, except maybe on like an EDM album cover. And then the music - I thought that was genius too. I was in Japan when WipEout released, so I had to bring it to Japan and localise it for the Japanese market. But it helped that Japan hadn't heard of the Chemical Brothers or Crystal Method or Prodigy. WipEout was like a music introduction vehicle.
我想对很多人来说，从酒吧或学校酒吧回到家玩《反重力赛车》，是一种仪式。哪怕在那个年代玩这游戏并不容易。
I think for a lot of folks, coming home from the pub or the uni bar and playing WipEout was a bit of a ritual. Even if playing it at that point was difficult.
雷登：说实话，最初的《反重力赛车》硬核得要命，毫不留情。老实讲，我们自己也这么干——从酒吧回来就玩。你根本不会玩，但你会笑到肚子疼。第一道弯没人过得去。到续作时，我们的确把操控调得宽容了一些。
Layden: Let's be honest, the original WipEout is rock hard. It's unforgiving. And honestly, you know, we'd do that too, come home from the pub and play. You can't play it, but you laugh your ass off. Everyone can't take the first corner. With the sequel, we did make the handling a bit more forgiving.
专门是为泡吧回来的人做的调整？
Specifically for people back from the pub?
雷登：倒不是专门，但对他们绝对是种福音。对我这种连初代《反重力赛车》都几乎玩不顺、恨不得把手柄砸向屏幕的人来说，尤其如此。
Layden: Not specifically but it was definitely a benefit to them. And for people like me, who could barely get into the original WipEout without throwing my controls at the screen.
你当时也在场，参与了那些关于"主机能做到什么"的早期讨论。索尼提出Cell处理器、情感引擎（Emotion Engine）这些如今似乎已经消失的魔法术语时，你都参与了。什么变了？
What was it like being part of those early conversations around what consoles could do? You were on board when Sony came up with the Cell Processor, the Emotion Engine - these magical terms that now seem to have gone away. What's changed?
雷登：从开发角度看，像PlayStation 2核心的情感引擎、PS3核心的Cell处理器这类东西，是当时最大的难题。要学习为这些专有架构开发，你得掌握全新技能才能从中榨取最佳性能。顽皮狗（Naughty Dog）总是能比其他人更早地钻进这些技术的内部。当然他们有优先访问权，但他们钻研得很深。平台独占让你能把该平台的能力推到极限，而无需做妥协——做跨平台产品时你就必须妥协。比如"别把帧率推得太狠，因为另一个平台应付不来"。
Layden: From a development perspective, things like the Emotion Engine at the heart of PlayStation 2, and the Cell processor at the heart of PS3, were the biggest headaches of the day. Trying to learn to build for those proprietary architectures required you learn new skills to get the most out of them. Naughty Dog always found a way to get under the hood of the tech before anybody else. Of course they had early access, but they burrowed deep. Being platform exclusive allowed you to push the limits of that platform's capabilities and you didn't have to make compromises, which you do when you do a multi-platform product.
比如"别把帧率逼得太狠，因为另一个平台应付不来。"与其做同一款游戏的两个版本、一个画面明显比另一个好看，你不如把一切平衡到看起来都一样。这也是为什么PlayStation自家出品的游戏在PlayStation上比在任何地方都好看——因为它们只做这个，这是它们唯一需要掌握的技术。我觉得这给了它们PS2和PS3时代特殊的优势，别人要花很长时间才能追上，但那未必是好事。那是个大麻烦，成本也极其高昂。PS3的硬件花了很长时间才实现盈利，非常长的时间；而当我们推出PS4时，它基本上从第一天起就是一款不亏本的产品。
It's like, 'don't push too hard on the frame-rate, because this other platform can't handle that'. Rather than make two versions of the same game where one looks remarkably better than the other, you just sort of balance everything out so it all looks the same. It's why the PlayStation homegrown stuff looks better on PlayStation than anything else, because that's all they do. That's all the tech they need to know about. And I think that gave special advantages on PS2 and PS3, which took other people a long time to catch up, but that wasn't necessarily a good thing. It was a bit of a headache, and there was a huge cost involved. PS3 hardware took a long time to get to profitability, a long time, whereas when we launched PS4, it was pretty much a non-loss product from day one.
我记得当年身在索尼东京总部见证PS4发售，这台主机从发售第一刻起就几乎不亏本，这件事显然意义重大。
I remember being at Sony's Tokyo headquarters for the PS4 launch, and the console's near-immediate profitability clearly being a big deal.
雷登：是啊，这要归功于我们转向了更加商品化的芯片（commoditised silicon）。你知道吗，曾有那么一个构想，希望PS3的Cell处理器能脱离主机平台，去跟英特尔、英伟达、AMD它们在CPU的世界里一较高下。但那并没有发生。而正因为没能做到，所有你原本可以预见的技术规模经济效应都受到了负面影响——因为你没法[足够快地]造出足够的量。
Layden: Yeah, and that comes down to us moving to more commoditised silicon. You know, I think there was a vision at one time where the PS3's Cell processor would somehow go off-platform and compete in the world of CPUs with the likes of Intel and Nvidia and AMD and others. But that didn't happen. And without that happening, all of the economies of scale that you might have predicted for the technology were impacted negatively, because you couldn't build enough of them [fast enough].
在PS3时代，索尼内部是什么样子？在所有世代里，我觉得那个时代是最难搞对的。
What was it like at Sony during the PS3 era? Of all the generations, I think it's the one that stands out as having been the biggest struggle to get right.
雷登：PS3是索尼的"伊卡洛斯时刻"。我们有了PS1、PS2……现在我们要造一台超级计算机！我们要往里面装Linux！我们要做这一切！我们飞得太靠近太阳了，能平安度过这段经历已是幸运，但它教会了我们很多。到了PS4，我们学会了一些道理：能买就别自己造。你能更好地控制成本，能和供应商讨价还价拿到更好的价格，而不是自己造东西。
Layden: PS3 was Sony's Icarus moment. We had PS1, PS2... and now we're building a supercomputer! And we're going to put Linux on it! And we're going to do all these sorts of things! We flew too close to the sun, and we were lucky and happy to have survived the experience, but it taught us a lot. And going to PS4, we learned things like: buy it, don't build it, if you can. You can manage the cost better. You can argue with vendors, get better deals instead of building your own thing.
我们还学到，一台机器的核心必须是游戏。重点不在于我能不能流媒体看电影、能不能听音乐。我能不能一边看电视一边订披萨再玩着游戏？不，就让它当台游戏机。就让它成为有史以来最棒的游戏机。我觉得那才是真正拉开差距的地方。当PS4问世时，它让我们跟Xbox想做的事正面交锋了。[他们]想打造一种更偏多媒体的体验，而我们只想造一台超猛的游戏机。
We also learned that the center of the machine has to be gaming. It's not about whether I can stream movies or play music. Can I order a pizza while I'm watching TV and play? No, just make it a game machine. Just make it the best game machine of all time. I think that's what really made the difference. When PS4 came out, it set us against what Xbox was trying to do. [They wanted to] build more of a multimedia experience, and we just wanted to build a kick ass game machine.
这引出了吉田修平那段传奇的"如何在PS4上分享游戏"视频……
Which lead to Shuhei Yoshida's legendary 'here's how you share games on PS4' video…
雷登：那是在当下即兴创作出来的。当时别人发布了公告，我们问："关于'如何分享'这个问题，我们的答案是什么？"灵光一现之间，他们就想出了那段视频。而它……简约得近乎摧枯拉朽。
Layden: That was created on the fly, in the moment, when announcements were made by other people and we said, 'what's our answer to the sharing question?' And in a moment of inspiration, they came up with that. And it was... it was devastating in its simplicity.
有时，当你太过膨胀、飘飘然于自己的那点家底时，正需要这种东西。PS3把我们拉回了第一性原理，而当你太过自我膨胀时，有时正需要这一记当头棒喝。你栽个跟头，脑袋撞到墙上，于是醒悟："我再也不能这样干下去了。"PS3对所有人都是一记警钟，提醒我们回到第一性原理上来。
That's what you need sometimes when you're riding too high on your own supply. PS3 got us back to first principles, and that's what you need sometimes when you're riding too high on your own supply. You take a little tumble, you hit your head on the wall, and you realise, 'I can't continue to operate this way'. PS3 was a clarion call to everybody to get back to our first principle.
渐渐地，我们有了厚版PS3、不那么厚的PS3，再到那个很小的版本——这一切都是为了践行"它是台游戏机，就把它做成游戏机"。我们做的就是这些。而到那时，Cell处理器的学习曲线已被攻克，很多开发者得以施展身手。不过头那两年，确实相当难熬。我们学到了很多，并且有能力将其付诸实践。光学习是一回事，但基于所学，能否换个活法又是另一回事。索尼拥有这种能力——能深入内省，对自己说："我们不能再那样干了。我们得恢复往日那样做事。"
Over time, we had the PS3 fat, then the PS3 not-so-fat, then the really tiny one. And that was all just in the pursuit of 'it's a game machine, make sure it's a game machine'. That's all we did here. And, by that time, the learning curve on the Cell processor was solved so a lot of developers were able to come out with stuff. The first couple of years, though, that was pretty grim. We learned a lot and we were able to put it into practice. Learning is one thing but then, based on that learning, the question is - can you execute a different approach? Sony had the ability and the capability to take a deep look inside and go, 'we've got to stop doing these things over there'. We had to start doing these things like we used to.
说到PS3，还想回到PS1时代，毕竟这是它的周年纪念——那个年代你最喜欢的游戏是什么？
Stepping back to PS1 then for a moment, as it is its anniversary - what are your favourite games from that era?
雷登：我参与的第一款游戏，是一款叫《ESPN街头游戏》（ESPN Street Games）的日版本地化作品。它只是一堆迷你游戏——在旧金山的街道上滑滑板、坐雪橇、骑山地自行车，就是竞速。超级简单，现在回过头看画面你会想："我的天，这得多像素化啊。"但它令人兴奋，让我充分理解了同屏合作或同屏竞技的乐趣。那将永远是我的初恋，因为那是我参与的第一款游戏。
Layden: The first game I worked on - a localised Japanese version of a game called ESPN Street Games. It was just a number of mini-games, just going down the streets of San Francisco on a skateboard, on a luge, on a mountain bike, and just racing. It was super simplistic, and the graphics, looking at it now you go, 'Oh my God. How pixelated is that?' But it was exciting, and it gave me a good understanding of the excitement around couch co-op or couch competitive play. That will always be my first love, because that's the first game I worked on.
后来，我同样喜欢我们围绕《啪啦啪啦》这类作品做的那些事。可惜的是，我觉得《啪啦啪啦》放到今天大概不会有人做了，因为太多发行商对新事物畏首畏尾。出自同一工作室的《节奏线条》（Vib-Ribbon），我也很爱。还有生化危机，准确说是《生化危机》（Resident Evil）。当它问世时，那真是一记惊雷。那是我们头一回要在外盒上贴一张写着"成人内容"的贴纸——你懂的，"家长们请注意"。但更重要的是——《生化危机》开创了一个全新的游戏类型，因为"生存恐怖"这个点子此前根本不存在。它出自第三方而非第一方，却证明了我们的理念——游戏公司在这里能够做出全新的东西。我们不是只会做日式RPG，或者又一个格斗游戏、又一个竞速游戏。当年我们与卡普空密切合作，在日本为《生化危机》做了恰到好处的推广。
Later on, I love the stuff we did with things like PaRappa. Sadly, I think PaRappa is a game that probably doesn't get made today because so many publishers are risk averse on doing new things. Vib-Ribbon, from the same studio, I loved. Also Biohazard, or rather, Resident Evil. When that came out, that was a shocker. That was the first time we had to create a sticker that says 'explicit content' - you know, 'mothers beware' - on the box. But more than that - Resident Evil created an entire new genre, as the idea of survival horror didn't exist beforehand. When that came out from a third-party, not from a first-party, we were validated with our idea that game companies could do something new here. We weren't just going to be about JRPGs, or another fighting game or some racing game. We worked very closely with Capcom to get the right promotion around Resident Evil in Japan.
再后来《合金装备》（Metal Gear）带着"潜行动作"登场——那是什么？是小岛秀夫（Kojima）让它成为现实，于是又一个新类型诞生了。这就是在把蛋糕做大。是创造更多品类、让更多人进入游戏的世界。我觉得这是PlayStation花了大量时间思索并付诸实践的事——不只是单纯扩大市场，还要给这个媒介带来生命力与稳定。
And then Metal Gear came out with stealth action - what is that? Kojima made it happen, and that created another new genre. It's about growing those pies. It's making more categories, getting more people into gaming. I think that is something PlayStation spent a lot of a lot of time thinking about and trying to do. Not just simply to grow the market, but also to give it longevity and stability as a medium.
你有没有嫉妒过竞争对手平台上的某款游戏？
Were you ever jealous of a game on a rival platform?
雷登：(笑着)说实话，我真正感到嫉妒的那一次……让我回到我在东京、PS1的时代。我的工作是把西方作品引入日本市场。用你们这边的俗话说，那就像向纽卡斯尔送煤，对吧？我会把《烈火战车》（Twisted Metal）这样的游戏带到日本，日本市场却会问："这是什么鬼？"但有一款游戏我很早就看到了，我听说了它的热度，于是专程去了德比的核心设计工作室（Core Design），因为……我想为日本市场争取《古墓丽影》。我希望它能登陆PlayStation。我见到了史密斯兄弟，我们聊了这件事，他们对这个构想非常兴奋。我们谈得很透彻，他们也谈得很透彻。然后……叮咚，成交了，他们却把它签给了世嘉土星（Sega Saturn）。世嘉？！在那之后不久，他们确实也把它带到了日本的PlayStation上，但首发是在世嘉。是啊，那一直让我觉得……我还能做点什么，才能真的把它拿下来？但我离成功只有那么一步之遥。
Layden: [Laughs] The one time I really felt jealous... I'm going back to my time in Tokyo on PS1. My job was to bring Western titles to Japan. And in your local parlance, that's like bringing coals to Newcastle, right? I would bring things like Twisted Metal to Japan, and the Japanese market would go 'what the hell is that?'. But one game I saw early on, and I heard the buzz, and I went out to Core Design in Derby because... I wanted to get Tomb Raider for the Japanese market. I wanted it to be on PlayStation. And I saw the Smith brothers, and we talked about it, and they were really excited about the concept. We talked it through. They talked it through. Bada bing, bada boom... they signed to bring it out on Sega Saturn. Sega?! And then shortly thereafter, they did get it onto the PlayStation in Japan as well, but it launched on Sega. And yeah, that always felt... What could I have done to have actually gotten it? But I came that close.
最后，有没有某个经典系列或游戏，你希望PlayStation能重新拿回来做？
Finally, is there one classic franchise or game that you'd like PlayStation to go back to?
雷登：这只是我个人的偏好。这是一款我第一眼看到就被打动、我也非常喜欢做它的那帮人的游戏——好到我们还为此推出了续作，同样有趣又精彩，我还促成它在PS4上出了重制版……我想要再啃一次《骷髅战士》（MediEvil）这个"苹果"。剑桥工作室的伙计们，在做初代《骷髅战士》时他们叫"千禧年"（Millennium），索尼随后不久就收购了他们。那种幽默感有点像蒂姆·波顿（Tim Burton）遇上巨蟒剧团（Monty Python），不过这种喜剧真的很难本地化成外语。如果我能挥一挥魔杖，再咬一口这个苹果，我会选《骷髅战士》的那个苹果。
Layden: This is just a personal preference. This is just a game that spoke to me when I first saw it, and I love the guys working on it - so much so we got a sequel out of it, which was also fun and fabulous and I was able to get it remastered for PS4... I would love another whack at MediEvil. The Cambridge studio guys were called Millennium at the time they were making the original MediEvil and Sony bought them shortly thereafter. The humour is kind of Tim Burton meets Monty Python though it was really hard to localise the comedy into foreign languages. If I could wave a magic wand and have one more bite at an apple, it would be the MediEvil apple.
